Hero Balance


#21

It wasnt weak but sniping and sword chops were the weapons of choice for high ranked players. Just ask Ryan he is a gunner main after all.


#22

So SS is often quite clear about all his points, I’'ll try to add some things on it (in this way we have an aimed balanced idea) and cover some more general concepts.

First of all, the sliding. Depending on the class type, there should be a maximun speed limits. Lights should be faster than strikers (and support, I’m not really where I should place these ones), strikers than heavies.

Weapon switching. A similar concept should be applied on the wepaon switch, atm is the same for every class. What I can suggest is the faster tha class, quicker it should be able to switch between weapons. The amount of times I got screwed just because I wanted to change weapon, it limits you to focus on a single weapon every time you are facing someone who is shooting back. This didn’t happen with light classes only, but with strikers too. For example with gunner, I tend to mix AR with rail gun close range as well (because it provides a better DPS), but whenever I do the damage I get during the animation is a ton, you can’t recover that easily from that.

There is a lor of stuff missing, I’ll publish it when I have the chance.


#23

okay since sonic probably nailed most of the things i wanted to say then i think i’ll just leave some things that i think that should be added along… i’ll just give a fair warning that most of these balancing issues are just me ranting about the assassin

gunner:Assault rifle:nerf the damage and range and reduce the ammuntion down to 40-45 or even 30

scout:SMG:same for the AR,nerf the damage,range and ammunition…sometimes when you combine MD with this you could simply kill a light class in about 4 bursts,and it’s not like it’s even hard to miss with this thing
saber:do something about the manuvering with this thing…sometimes when you try autolocking at someone while he’s getting away,you’d probably dash towards him but you just won’t hit him,you’ll miss by a slight inch every second (instead of simply dashing past him while slicing him) and he’ll simply end you,that crap shouldn’t be like that
the chop:this ability…or whatever you’d call it seems completely broken and unsettled…sometimes you’d instakill a light with full health/shields,sometimes you’d break less then a half of a target’s shield,sometimes a target with only half of their health left with 0 shields would simply survive with a single point of health left,long story short this thing has no clear damage and works like a slot machine more then anything,and there as to be some way to fix the damage on it… other then that the dash you get from simply pressing the R button is either forgiving enough to send you out of hell without a scratch,or punishing enough to throw you right into a bubbled tank… i think the chop should only be used when you target someone,as a weapon,rather then an escape tool…there should also be a reduction in the cooldown,it’s quite fast for something so powerfull/usefull
tech:healing ray:nerf down the healing rate to something more reasonable (atleast to the point where a bomber won’t be completely useless against a tech healing a lv 3 suppressor)…
suppressor:A.buff the damage this thing deals,but instead of having each shot cause a suppression effect,make it so each 4-5 shots is a suppression…not sure if it’s any usefull but i think it would be better that way…i think
B.i think it’s quite minor,but make the cooldown of the Q itself last even after death,rather then have it reset…
mines:either buff tech’s mine damage or nerf shocker’s
Blaster:heavy rocket launcher**:the stuns should be completely removed out of this**,this weapon’s powerfull enough even without them,but the second you get hit by a rocket that stuns you it’s the end
Repulsion field:remove the damage reduction,there’s realy no point in having it…
asteroid rush:i’d rather have this ability completely replaced with something else,but if it wouldn’t then atleast nerf the cooldown to something more reasonable then 6 seconds
micro munitions:rja mentioned that idea once,the micros should be an airstrike type of weapon,which means their drop would be completely vertical
assassin…:(dear God…)
talking about the weapons isn’t realy neccesary with this class IMO since the main problem about them is the poison,and since considering that this is the only class that has any type of poison in it,then i think i should talk about that alone
poison:A.nerf the damage reduction…whenever you get hit by 2 autolock bursts from an assassin’s needlers,your weapons might aswell become completely useless,and it shouldn’t even be that hard to hit a target with those needlers… i think the reduction should go down to 20-25% rather then what it allready is,since it really turns the needlers into a low risk-high reward,
B.make the needlers and the blades cause a diffirent type of poison…nobody’s gonna like that idea,but i think it’s much more fair to have the blades and only the blades having poison that get’s the catacalyse effect by the E…sometimes the second a single stack of knife poison reaches it’s end after taking down my shields,and im only a few meters close to the health pack,the same assassin suddenly fires 1 or 2 needles at me,refreshes the entire poison sequence along with the insanly powerfull knife poison that hit me,presses E,and i get killed for something that in reality should have probably took away less then 5% of my health…that’s complete bullcrap and assassins shouldn’t even get a privilage like that…hell they could just throw a panic bomb and get a kill. long story short again,the blades and the needlers should have seperate types of poison rather then the same stack
3.the poison should have a fixed value of damage for both the knives and the needlers,which means it won’t be effected by either crits,uncrits and not even MD:sometimes an assassin could be lucky enough to get enough damage to kill a target using a stab,2 needle shots and a bomb (like i’ve mentioned above) and sometimes 6 stacks of poison that came out of a knyphoon wouldn’t be close to enough to kill a target…i realy don’t see a reason for the assassin to be so based on luck. other then that whenever an assassin picks up a piece of MD,he could just go against a light class,fire up 2-3 bursts of needlers,take down the target’s shields,press E and simply win… and that’s complete bullcrap for a weapon such as the needlers. and even if we make the poisons seperate,you could still find assassins instakilling lights with a single stab,a bomb and an E…
now if we go with those kind of ideas,then i’ll just mention what changes i think the weapons might need
needlers:the needlers should get the type of poison that causes damage reduction,and that type could be stacked up to 7
blades:the blades should get the type of poison that works with the catalyse skill.
poison aside,the assassin could preform a double slash with his blades just like the scout can do with his saber,so i think it’s only fair to remove it with the assassin too if double slash is unwanted
knyphoon:give a slight nerf to the range of that thing…that’s all i can claim
catalyse: the main pourpse of this ability is to take all the poison damage you’ve inflicted on the target,and simply activate it in a single shot,instead of waiting for the entire DoT span…but instead,this ability has a tendency to give an unfair boost to the assassin sometimes,which i allready mentioned before…i belive it’s better for the ability not to have any type of damage multiplayer at all…might be a questionable idea however…
panic bomb:sonic nailed almost everything wrong with this bomb (other then the tech’s beam being double edged,i think it should stay like that),the one thing i’d like to add is that the bomb should have atleast a little bit of accuracy involved while using it,beacuse whenever an assassin locks at anything,then 98% of the chances that the bomb would hit whatever it is no matter what… the bomb should have far less accuracy then what it has
the jetpacks:…yes,it’s a light class,yes it should be fast,and yes i shouldn’t cry about how fast the assassin is while a tank or a blaster could literally race my bomber,but dear GOD,the jetpacks are OP…
i could see assassins jumping from one end of the map to another in shuttle bay by simply pressing the spacebar for 2 seconds,i could see assassins reaching the height of a bomber’s E by pressing the spacebar for 0-1 seconds,the jetpacks throw you so high that the moment you’ll land and start sliding a tiny bit you’re allready at your maximum speed… the jetpacks should be nerfed drasticly… but then again,whenever you try using the hovering option they hold,then the only thing you’re doing is writing your own death sentence,so in that regard,the assassin’s hovering ability should be buffed
and that’s everything i can say about the assassin…
shocker:
orb caster:make the projectiles faster and make the cooldown longer and make the projectiles smaller,the faster the projectiles would go the less damage they’ll do,and considering the 5134979 orb spams you see daily,i think it wouldn’t hurt having 1 of the orbs hitting you for less time…
aegis shield:like sonic said,make them unhealable
i also think that upgrading the shield should have a diffirent buff other then making it bigger…the shield might get bigger,but the bigger it is,the less risk you’ll have trying to destroy it from the inside,so it seems like more of a nerf then anything to upgrade it
mines:see tech’s mines
that’s all i have for now…might have some more things to say later…


#24

Make there be a limit of one tank per team. That should solve lots of balance problems.


#25

For All Classes:
-Lock-on capture circumference (or whatever) should be very smaller (except for melee weapons)
-Increase bomb cooldown (Except for mines)


Tank

  • Neutron shell nerf
  • Slide nerf (Shouldn’t be able to charge jetpack while sliding)… to avoid slide spam
  • Concussion bomb damage nerf
  • Fix Mauler (stunlock)

Gunner

  • Nerf Shatterbomb damage
  • Decrease AR ammo capacity/magazine size
  • Usernames are blocking 1/3 of the body of the target, harder to headshot with rail

Assassin

  • Nerf slide just like how tank’s slide is nerfed
  • Catalyze toxins range should be limited

Blaster

  • HRL needs a big change
  • Nerf minigun damage

Shocker

  • Aegis shouldn’t be deployed inside another aegis/shouldn’t stack
  • Lightning gun shouldn’t heal poison instantly
  • Orb caster (increase projectile speed)

Blazer

  • Flare bomb should have DoT (burn targets)
  • Nerf Flamethrower base damage by 50% but increase DoT
  • Make Spectral Optics Toggle-type skill

Commando

  • Decrease Shotgun projectile range
  • Nerf Kai-oken

Scout

  • Nerf Doped Saber chop
  • Remove Double slash (Even if I don’t want to)

Tech

  • Increase pulser’s projectile speed
  • Increase Suppressor HP

#26

That wouldn’t work. Everyone should be able to use any class they want. Limiting that would just cause riots. Balancing tank is the best option.


#27

My thoughts:
Toad and Charl have no idea how much more OP tank used to be lol. You used to be able to buy Flamethrower for tank. Think of how OP that is. A tank with the highest dps weapon in the game…basically if you had a Tank on your team and he had Flamer you won automatically, it didn’t matter if he sucked or how good the opposite team was, you won. Also, you used to be able to capture the point with Tank while still bubbled.

A lot of you guys are saying AR should be nerfed. I don’t think it should tbh, it’s fine as it is.

I think the main issue with the balance are the heavy classes. Both are OP to the point they should just be removed. Think of it this way, it’s easier to kill a hacker than a tank. Blaster can deal legit the same amount of damage that a hacker can deal. Sometimes I think the blaster is actually hacking but then realize that’s how the class is.

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Blaster

**
I think this is the biggest issue in the game (other than the obvious hacks). Micro Munitions need to be completely redone. It’s so easy to hit a class with this grenade, you can literally do it with your eyes closed. Not to mention the devastating effects. I honestly have no idea what they were thinking when they made this grenade. Heavy Rocket Launcher is one of the most annoying weapons in the game. The dps is fine, the range is fine, the lock-on is fine, but the stuns are freaking insane. No way in heck should a rocket stun. You get hit by one rocket and there goes your life. It’s a death sentence. If the stun has to stay (I don’t see why it would), then at least make the weapon non-lock-on able. Minigun is worse than HRL. It pushes away, has great range (I mean, come on, it’s basically got the same range as AR), and does the most dps after Flamer. The range on this thing needs to be nerfed so much.

**

Tank

**
Ok, this guy is almost impossible to kill. If he’s a pro and he doesn’t want to die, he won’t. That’s the biggest problem with Tank. It takes literally 15 seconds or more to kill one. I don’t even bother fighting Tanks anymore, I just run away from them. Bubble is the most OP skill in the game. Period. Being invincible for 8 seconds is better than anything else. The shield should at least be poppable at a certain dps. Also, no way should Tank be able to enable the bubble while headshotted. Nothing hacks me off more than head-shotting a Tank only to have him pop bubble on and walk away. I know other people have had good ideas about this. Buckler is crucial to Tank’s success, but needs a slight tweak or two. It’s very annoying when you get Tanks health down a bit, and then he puts up buckler and backs up into his base. The way it is right now, it’s almost impossible to hit him. Buckler shouldn’t stop every single thing coming its way.

Here’s the main problem though with heavy classes. The gosh darn freaking sliding makes them so freaking fast, there’s no point in even playing as a light class when a heavy class can go almost the same freaking speed. Remove the sliding mechanism, it’s been broken the day it was introduced. Recent nerfs have made it better, but if you’re gonna nerf it anymore you may as well just remove it. Tbh, removing sliding would fix a lot of the problems. Having a strong class to take out support classes is needed, but these two classes legit don’t have any worthwhile counters. So, here’s what I’d like to see done with these two classes:

Blaster
Re-work his grenade
Remove stuns from rockets
Tank
Nerf bubble shield
Tweak buckler

Overall for every class
Remove the stupid sliding.


#28

Beli I am very aware, when do you think I started playing? I loved the shotgun so much. I want it back it fiy yhe playstyle way better but you will see when i post my tank balancing which will be fair but ridiculed to no end


#29

Let me scratch an itch in my back here: the bomber
This class, oh this class is weird.
Its hoovering’s cooldown is weird, but the protection given is too high.
His bomb’s stun is too long for the damage it deals with its primary gun (it can basically kill an light class, sometimes even strikers)
His secondary weapon slows down his enemies, but doesn’t deal decent damage, it just slowns down the target so it can be destroyed by your team.
A relatively slow class.
What I am trying to say here is that instead of being a light class, the bomber is a flying striker instead of the lighting-fast enemy that I see in an scout or assasin.
It looks more like an striker in its current state.
Now for some reason I feel like a hater


#30

I also want to mention something to Someonepro, they call them counter classes. Looks like youve met the counter to bomber. Blaster is one too but all of us agree that blaster needs a big change. I do agree the fact that the panic bomb should be nerfed and maybe the needlers bullet damage (not poison stack damage, I know it is lower DoT than blade poison) should be higher. It is no surprise that any skirmish with a light chassis involved that whoever gets the first hit off wins it, most of the time. That is what light classes are for, get in, strike first do as much as you can and gtfo. so to speak. You are very good with that at bomber, a good bomber is as hard to kill as an above average tank.


#31

Idk, but you said Tank was fine before the 2014 update and my point was it was way worse because of the Flamer.


#32

Um no one complained about the flamethrower on tank because it wasnt the same flamethrower as the one on blazer it was less powerful than the original blazer flamethrower. If you remember correctly people actually liked the tank flamethrower, it was a balanced flamer.


#33

It was buffed when they gave it to Blazer, but it was still OP as crap and did the highest dps in the game. Everyone who played back then agrees on how OP it was and how pay to win the game was. Just ask sonics, or pis, or rja.


#34

I never thought so, and I am doing the tank rebalance right now in the other tab, its going to be huge.


#35

Here it is, the full in-depth guide on how to balance the Tank
Yall hate it, I love it. Sit back grab your popcorn and some soda pop and enjoy me going in-depth into the agreed most overpowered hero in the game.
Disclaimer: some are suggestions that I would like to see and some are fair and agreed terms on what needs to change
Feel free to dispute anything and everything I write. I would love to discuss any idea you have on tank. Please be as unbiased as possible in reading this and be polite in your replies, you can PM me with any question/idea.

TANK BALANCING

  1. The Heavy Machinegun: We can all agree this gun is not overpowered in its damage however it gives the tank a longer range than needed for its playstyle. I suggest we replace the HMG with the Heavy Shotgun. The heavy shotgun should have high damage per shot and extremely slow rate of fire. A four shot clip that also reloads much slower than the HMG does now. The bullets should do 400-600 shield damage and 600-800 health damage per shot at minimum range, the damage should drop off EXPONENTIALLY as the range increases even going as far down as to 50 damage a shot ( after all you should be punished for even trying to shoot a player across the map with a heavy shotgun not to say the bullet can should be able to go that far but still). We want the tank to be mincemeat when caught out in the open but a beast in tight spots like on the capture point, right? That is what tank is for.

2.Blitzkrieg Mauler There is a love hate relationship with this hammer right now. I agree it should be tweaked. The time between swings should have a cap as well as the swing speed should be lowered slightly(youre thinking its a huge hammer you would swing it slowly so decrease the swing speed a lot, you are wrong newtons law will tell you if that thing starts swinging it wont stop). The buckler should not be changed at all, other than give it a longer time swap between weapons but aI previously mentioned that, the delay between RMB and frontal invulnerablity is quite substantial and if you are a good player it is easily exploited.

3.Nuetron shell. Ah yes the dreaded “bubble”. I dislike it as much of all of you, if any of yall have played with me for any length of time you will know I have died as tank so many times without pressing ‘Q’. Quite simply because I prefer not to, it is a cheap trick in its current state. The duration of nuetron shell should be lowered to between 6-7 seconds, inclusively.(with testing to see which side of 6-7 is more fair). If you are thinking but that is only 1-2 seconds that is nothing. Well in a game like FFT or any shooter that 1-2 is a lot, it is longer than the time to kill for most assassins.

Also the ability for the bubble to stop preacquired DoTs is ridiculous I agree. The shell should not stop any damage from poison and burn stacks that have already been implemented onto the character. However catalyze should not be able to activate on the stacks of poison the tank has while the bubble is up. Just think of it that the bubble blocks the signal of the assassins ‘E’ to catalyze, makes sense right?

Also the tank should not be able to bubble when bell-rung. I know the duration of bell-rung changes based on where the headshot occurs however I feel tank (and blaster) should get a 15-20% increase in bell-rung duration. My thinking behind this is because these are big guys in those suits with I am assuming less cognitive ability and IQ than lets say the character in the scout suit. It is only natural for the bigger guy to get their bearing slower. However i should add that the bell-rung duration should have a cap for all, I can tell you plenty of times where I have been bell-rung for over 10-15 seconds off of one head-shot.

The nuetron shell should give some implication as to when it is about to expire, whenever the shell has 1.5 seconds left the bubble should gradually turn a darker red, then right before the shell ends the red should increasingly blink red telling the players, oh shoot and the enemy oh yes.
These changes to shell should be implemented and full length tested before any health bar should be added to the bubble.

4.Comet rush No one hates this ability, they just hate what it gives to the tank. The comet rush needs to be nerf/buffed. The propulsion it gives should be decreased by 25-40% and the damage/offensive capabilities should be buffed, increase the chance for the on-hit effect to cause crits as well as do more damage if you hit a target, not much more damage the increased crit buff is fine but some increase in damage. The cooldown on it is fine.

5.Concussion bomb. No problems with this particular grenade: however I mention that not just this grenade but all grenades should have a longer cooldown in between casts to decrease the spamability of grenades.

6.Tank agility/mobility. The reason most hate the tank in the first place. We can all agree he tanks mobility is a combination of two things, the comet rush and the slide. Since I already addressed the comet rush, here is the take on the slide in combination with tank. The slide should have a speed cap based on the chassis of the hero being used. This will take more testing but I will estimate that the heavy chassis should have a slide cap at between 40-60 mph.

7.Tanks defensive stats This is tricky, everyone sane agrees tank should have the highest defensive stats in the game, however some believe the base defense on the Tank chassis is too high. My simple rebuttle is just no. The base defense on the Tank chassis is fine. However the shield (but not the health bar) should have high weaknesses to some type of attacks. Also known as piercing attacks such as those with Battle rifle, sniper rifle, and the chop and engaged attacks of scout and assassin respectively. That does not mean the saber and assassin blades, just those two attack types from those classes.

Like this post if you agree so that Ankit and his team will take these ideas into consideration
Again if you have ANY problem with these ideas please share them and I will tell you exactly what I was thinking and my train of thought on why I said what i said. Thank you for being polite in response to this balancing guide.


#36

Here is the old bubble turning read when 1/4 of its duration is left, meaning two seconds left.


#37

Sorry xD I think Blaster is worse.

  1. This is an interesting idea, but I actually kinda like it. Tank itself is actually a very boring class for me. Heavy Shotgun was a cool weapon that I’d like to try again.

  2. I don’t really see any problems with Mauler atm. I don’t think it needs to be nerfed or buffed. Maybe nerf the buckler, but even that…

  3. I liked your ideas with shell. Good job.

  4. Agree.

  5. Somewhat agree.

  6. Disagree. May as well just remove slide. Might also help for Tank to lose a few pounds, he could use it. Have you seen how fat he is?

  7. Agree.

Agreed with mainly all except 2 and 6. Nice work.


#38

I want the Tank to not be a braindead hero. Heavy shotgun kills its ability to fight on top in TA or under shuttle for the most part however when a Tank is put in that situation, I want the Tank player to think hey let me bait this guy trying to kill me into a close space such as the HP hallway on shuttle or the HP room in TA and thats when you can turn the fight around. I just want you to have to think. Also the slide, its gotta stay. I also just want the mauler to be less braindead too, i want timing like with the saber. I want mechanical skill to be of extremem importance in a competitive game such as shooters like FFT.
I like the way you formatted your response, thank you Can everyone respond in that format, much appreciated.


#39

Why does the slide have to stay? It does nothing good, and creates a whole lot of bad. I will not rest until slide is removed.


#40

The game would be slow and boring if the slide was to be removed. The game in descriptions is a fast paced, space marine themed, TPS. Remove the the slide then you remove the fast paced.