Hero Balance


#1

Balance is the core of the game, let’s try to make it work.

A thread is needed for a topic like this one, not easy to get through.


#2

Should I post one massive post on Tank rebalancing? I feel like I am one of the most qualified to discuss the topic.


#3

Actually, everyone is more than capable of doing that. But don’t hesitate, you don’t need to ask if can or can’t post, feel free to do it if you feel you can contribute to this topic with your thoughts.


Now, I’d like to say that:

- Bomber’s Pocket Nuke (E) needs to have a faster cooldown: it actually takes a lot of time to reload and I feel like other (Q) abilities from other heroes reload even faster than this one.

- Bomber’s Hail Raiser should have it’s projectile trajectory / accuracy buffed: it’s quite hard to hit enemies with this weapon, and there’s something off with the target lock. Sometimes, you will miss every single shot against an enemy that is standing still, and then again, in other situations you can pull some trickshots that at first glance seem to be impossible. Plus, the “splash” effect it makes should actually make more damage, so it can destroy Aegis Lv I. faster.

- Assassin’s Panic Bomb needs a nerf: The effects of this grenade are way too devastating, and this is something that a lot of players don’t even know. What everyone knows is that it turns the enemies’ screen black and white and it gives a panic status that turns on friendly fire, and that’s it, however, it does a lot more:

  1. It makes Blazer’s flamethrower almost useless.

  2. Lowers the damage that the panicked player deals.

  3. Other status effects (such as dazes and stuns) may have their effects nerfed and in some occassions completely removed.

  4. Make’s Tech’s Repair Beam a double-edged weapon because it can heal enemies (which is kinda contradictory, you are turning friendly fire on, but there’s no need for the enemy, who is obviously not a friendly unit, able to take advantage of your skills).

  5. Some attacks might completely miss: Rocket launcher, Mini Grenades, Needlers, Pulser, and most weapons that don’t use “bullets” and use some other kind of attack related with energy and such.

PS. The range of effect is kinda OP, with 1 grenade you can confuse like 3-4 players at the same time.

- Gunner’s Shatter Bomb needs a tweak: (For those who are already typing a hateful reply to this point, let me tell you that this is neither a buff or a nerf, it’s a change, tyvm loves). Now, I kinda agree that Gunner needs to have “something” to defend themselves against close combat units, but the Shatter Grenade is kinda over the top and I honestly consider it one of the best grenades in the game.

  1. First of all, if it hits, say good bye to your lovely health, because it deals MASSIVE damage.

  2. The area of effect is kinda messed up. In some occasions, if you are in the air and the Gunner throws the grenade at you it will hit even though in your screen it doesn’t even passed near you, which is super weird because you see that the grenade missed yet it caused you to get hit for some magical reasons.

  3. It removes the defences of the enemy, which is a massive combo if you put them together with the point 1.

- Make Scout Great Again!: there’s an on-going bug/glitch called “double slash” that theoretically wasn’t suppused to be a part of the game. It basically allows your Saber to swing once and make it hit twice, but the animation will only show 1 swing. This deals A LOT of damage in no time, sometimes even insta-killing other Light classes and Support heroes. Sadly, this technique is considered like the “end-game” of Scout, therefore many pros and veterans consider that exploiting this bug is okay and even needed if you ever want to be considered “good” at this class. Kinda dissapointing.

- Remake Blazer: This class needs to have all the abilities remade and it’s concept must be taken seriously. You see, Blazer is an hero that must dominate fire, it should have complete control of this element, and everywhere you go you’ll see the same kind of player that will only use the flamethrower because apparently this hero does not have anything else to offer. Just see:

  1. Radiate (Q) is a mere slight buff to your fire rate, which could be translated to having a tiny “hypercharge” at your disporsal. What it’s the point of this? Wouldn’t it be much more epic to have something related with fire? I don’t know, the Q will make you explode dealing serious damage to your enemies and inflict fire status.

  2. Spectral Optics (E) is complete bs, why on Earth would you want to have X rays? Yeah, the concept of this ability IS cool, but it DOESN’T suit Blazer at all. Give him instead some kind of ability that allows him to move faster, Gunner has Copter Kick, Commando has Butt Stroke, Tank and Blaster have the same abiltity because FRG was super original, Scout has Thunderkick, Bomber has Pocket Nuke, and Blazer? He has X rays. Fan-ducking-tastic.

  3. Blaze Bomb (F) has a wonderful concept! A circle of fire in the floor that damages your oponents. That would be so cool if it only were useful. What does this do? It deals damage, that’s it. And do not think this does a significant ammount of damage, it’s completely all the oposite. It deals a bit of damage over time, which means that for it to have some sort of effect you need to be dumb enough to stand still in the same place without moving, and that’s all it has to offer. AT LEAST, let it cause some fire status damage, I mean, the floor is literally on fire and you can afford to walk in there for like 5 seconds knowing that it will barely take your shields out? There’s something completely off with this.

  4. Flamethrower: deals too much damage. Nerf ASAP.

  5. Heat Ray: concept of the weapon is messed up, deals little to no damage. Buff ASAP.

- Blaster must calm the F down: When FRG told us about this class, he told us that he was suppused to bring the strongest and heaviest weapons to the game, and he was right! But I feel like his weapons have 3 effects that are far too weird.

  1. Rocket Launcher: “somehow” this weapon stuns too often. I am fine with this weapon having some sort of stun effect, but it happens sooooo frequently that it’s super annoying to have to deal with them.

  2. Minigun: bullets from this weapon… pushes you away? Wait, how does that work out? Why would I get thrown away by bullets? Why this does not happen with other weapons? This should not exist.

  3. Micro Munitions (F): While I believe that this is a very situational grenade (Y`know, because for this to actually work out you have to be in the air most of the time… and all…) I also believe that the rewards of using this right are far too good. Remember when I said that I considered Gunner’s grenade to be one of the bests? Yeah, I didn’t say “the best” because this grenade takes the cake. It instakill light classes and sometimes even strikers, can stun & daze, push away and cause a ragdoll effect if you are a heavy hero as well. So: it deals a lot of damage and if the target dares to stand alive you will have enough time to finish them off. Brilliant!

- Shocking shockers are shocking: Their Innervate (E) should be considered their (Q) ability because holy ducks, it’s effects are more devastating that most abilities you can find in this game. Their Aegis are fine, but I honestly think that a Tech should not be able to heal this turret. This is the reason of why support spam is so strong… you can’t actually take these shields out and even if you do believe that the shocker will have it’s Q ready again to pull out another Aegis in no time, and there’s no way to stop this from happening. Shocker is actually the cornerstone of any team that desire to win with 0 effort. (And Tanks, but meh).

- Commando’s Butt and drugs are kinda OP:

  1. Stim Pack (Q) is ok, but the effect is too good and the punishment afterward is also too extreme. I suggest to nerf the effects, not that much, but enough to not insta kill poor Scouts that happen to be in your sight AND completely remove the punishment after you’re done with this ability.

  2. Butt Stroke (E) is secsi, nobody can deny this, however… the stuns are so shocking (forgive me for this evil pun) that I find unrealistic as hell how well it can work out. If you manage to come close enough to anyone you will deal a fatal blow, and that’s not always fair. I suggest to make impacts easier to land, by extending the reach/range, but shortening the duration of the effect.

(i haz moar dinzgs tu say, bat ai haz nu taim, zo ai’l kom l8r amd zii hao ebrizin goez, kbai).


#4

Thank you for leaving it to me, and I would not say all. I have almost more hours invested into Tank gametime than anyone. (Lmfat and me ofc) SS you are way to biased to do a Tank rebalance post, no offense but you know you would turn it into butter.


#5

I have actually played with Tank, and the fact that I have more “gametime” spent with other heroes gives me way more room to criticize Tanks than a 24/7 Tank user. This is why anyone can review any class and give usefull advices and thoughts about it. For instance, I have probably played (along with someonepro/pointlessfield) Bomber the most, and thus I am more experienced with it than anyone else in the game, but that DOES NOT mean that I am more fit to speak about it than, for example, the people who I play with/against when I use Bomber.

^ What does that mean? That be it you (Tank… lover? defender?) or be it me (Tank h8r) we will both be right and our point of view will collide, and only then we will reach a conclusion.


#6

You will definitely like what I have to say, I have thought about the Tank class for some time. I have a long running list of what can be done. I hope you will enjoy my spree into talking about something I have truly enjoyed for the past three and a half years.


#7

Sonics used to be one of the best Tanks in the game tbh. Also, your ideas stand or fall on their own merits, not on what you play or how you play it.


#8

Your ideas stand AND directly fall on your experience*.


#9

Which I take is the affirmation that you do take merit in my experience with said class?


#10

In everyone’s experience*, not only yours. But yeah, the concept is the same for everyone.

EDIT: If you want to take it as a compliment then take it. Also, I speak like that with everyone in-game, Jo can confirm. Rait Jo?


#11

That is a compliment from you and I will take it, you dont talk to many others like that bb :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#12

Blazer’s E is perfectly fine. It’s very useful to me and helps me with my kills. It helps me sneak up on Stronger classes like blaster and gives me the upper hand. I can hide and wait for a class that’s using long range and kill them in short range. It basically gives me a 3rd eye. I don’t think spectral optics should be removed.


#13

Ankit I’ve been wanting to ask you this question for a while. Do you think you guys can efficiently and effectively balance the game without actually playing it? I mean half of the stuff we suggest or mention you guys wouldn’t know what we’re talking about unless someone is actually playing the game. I think it might be hard for you guys to fix some stuff unless a developer starts playing first hand to experience what we are actually talking about. What are your thoughts on this?

For example if I say Tank’s mauler has an OP stun lock rate. How would you guys go about finding out what we are talking about in the first place? Agoaj created the game so of course he would know. But for new developers I think that might be challenging.


#14

We have very good testing and QA team and they are playing the game and I dont mind few of you to have direct discussion with them one day :slight_smile:[quote=“Rja12, post:13, topic:2090”]
I think it might be hard for you guys to fix some stuff unless a developer starts playing first hand to experience what we are actually talking about. What are your thoughts on this?
[/quote]

Don’t worry about anything we have very good experience in this field. [quote=“Rja12, post:13, topic:2090”]
For example if I say Tank’s mauler has an OP stun lock rate. How would you guys go about finding out what we are talking about in the first place? Agoaj created the game so of course he would know. But for new developers I think that might be challenging.
[/quote]

I agree with you for now but since our testers are on the game and with the help of you guys I dont think it gonna be really big challenge :slight_smile:

and yes we love challenges, that’s what makes Y8 a most popular online gaming portal

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/y8.com
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/kongregate.com

Far better than Kongregate :slight_smile:


#15

Shots fired. Watch it now we were born and bred on Kongregate :stuck_out_tongue:


#16

By far the biggest issue has always been how overly powered Tanks are, so any balance update should focus on that first.

There are many other issues, but I think almost everyone would agree that they are less important. So I think everyone should wait before discussing the balance issues of other classes and instead discuss how to make Tanks more balanced so that this is brought to the attention of the developers.


#17

I will have the post out by tomorrow by 6:00 pm EST which is in 16 hours. That way we can discuss it and naturally tweak it to best fit everyones liking.
Also Tank has not always been the problem, it was just fine before the 2014 update.


#18

2014? So the Commando update? I’m fairly sure it was OP long long before that :p.

Maybe it was ok back in the shop era.

But anyway the important thing is that we agree that tank is currently the biggest balance issue.


#19

Commando came out in 2015, the 2014 update was the beginning of the 3rd generation, like you and Andy. It was the graphics and overall gameplay change. It is when the Tank became quite braindead. It was braindead before because of the nature of the Q, however to play at the level in Lft+ type of matches (those maps hadnt come out yet) the tank was no clear winner in the spam category that award went over to gunner/scout.


#20

Ohh, for some reason I thought Commando came out in 2014.

Anyway, I know the update you are talking about, I was playing before that just not often. I think Tank was OP back then as well but I admit I wasn’t playing enough back then to judge this properly.